Barrie's medical emergency!

[Tobi]

(08-28-2017, 02:34 AM)Catherine Wrote:

Quote:Then surely that is a gap in their training? Should vets not be trained for treating all types of farm and domestic animals, not just mammals?

It is a gap in their training, but most vets would never see a Tegu lizard of any kind in their lives. Mostly they wouldn't see reptiles of any kind.  However in this case it probably was a "reptile" vet. Being a doctor, the vet would immediately want a medical/surgical solution. They just didn't take into account the trauma of the surgery and the anesthetic. I would trust an experienced reptile breeder over a vet any day. The breeder has actual experience living with and handling the reptiles. Reptile metabolisms are so different from mammals. 
 
I don't necessarily trust human doctors either. I balance their advice against common sense. I have been prescribed medications(that I wisely didn't take) that would have done more harm that the original problem(which went away on its own).
I had one gall bladder attack in 1979 and they wanted to do surgery, but in almost 40 years I have never had another attack.
I am better for not having had the surgery. I am glad I waited. 

Barrie is not out of danger yet, but I got him to eat a small snack this morning. If he will eat it will help him to recover.

I am gla dto hear Barrie is eating. That seems like a good sign. Most animals won't eat if they are starting with infection or have pain. Bless him, and I hope he will be okay.

I agree with you Catherine. There are some things that don't need too much interference medically. Some things heal better left to nature, and just sensible care at the time. I was once prescribed narcotic painkillers for sciatica pain, when I'd already told the doctor that Ibuprofen worked just fine, suited my system, and only cost 48p at the supermarket. I didn't take the narcotics. Her reason for prescribing 'something stronger' was because she said it 'would get me up and moving about more'. I told her that I like nothing better than to be moving about doing work, but right then, all I needed was rest and let it heal naturally.
I suppose they like that because in a few days' time we are back for laxatives....then some other medicine to combat the side effects of that!....etc. Soon we are rattling with pills!

I agree with you too, LPC. You'd thnk vets would have an all-round training, but considering (so I have heard) they get, I think, a one-afternoon course in animal nutrition (!) in all their years of training -and that is probably flawed and influenced by pet food companies...then it goes to show something in their training is sadly lacking.

[Catherine]

You are right that vet training is flawed. There are big gaps. They don't learn a lot about birds.
I doubt they have any geriatric pet training.
Veterinary training was geared towards treating farm animals. The pet vet is a newer thing. The vet training still heavily involves farm animals. Understanding nutrition is a newer thing in medicine in general. 
With reptiles it is all about lighting and vitamins. Those are the things we have to get right. That requires so knowledge of reptile metabolism and physiology. No vet college is going to "waste" time on that.

Medicine, human and animal is geared towards drug and surgical interventions. Nutrition and lifestyle studies would be more effective. Eating well and being active will overcome many health problems. I had a doctor tell me I need to spend time on a tread mill to get exercise, it is the only kind exercise that counts. He never asked me if I have an active lifestyle. People who know me tell me to slow down and get some rest.

Like you with your back, rest is a welcome thing and is often enough to fix things(with a little Ibuprofen).
Many people are on medications that require medications for the side effects, that also require medications for the side effects and so on.  How about a good healthy meal and a good walk. That would do more good. 

For the back they would rather do surgery that try physio and rest. I encouraged physio for someone who was planning surgery. Before they could do the surgery she recovered. She will need to look after her back in future, but that is better than the long term effects of surgery.

As for Barrie, he is sleeping a lot, but he is a lizard. They always sleep a lot.
I know it could still go bad, but he is as strong boy. I think he can make it.

Quick update, Barrie just ate a proper supper and looks very happy about it.

[Tobi]

Oh it does seem as if things are looking up for Barrie! I am glad to hear that. He is maybe not out of the woods yet but doing very well so far. Your timely and intelligent care probably saved him from getting an infection...Let's hope he continues to get better each day.

That thing you mentioned about exercise made me smile. When I had just started as a student in London I felt quite lonely at first and didn't like my accommodation (miles away in a dingy part of the city). So I spent hours walking in the West End and parks etc. I clocked up many miles. I worked out that I walked 26 miles one weekend, and miles each evening.
I got a terrible ache in my hip, found a doctor and went for a consultation. "Well young lady," said the doctor, "I think you need more exercise!"
In a daze I asked him, "...Do you mean I should walk more than thirty miles at a weekend instead of twenty six?"
He just stared at me for a moment. "Maybe you should have a rest instead." He said.

[Libby]

Glad Barrie is doing better. It sounds like you've got it under control. Also good job on keeping it clinical considering the parts you are talking about. I hope he keeps doing better.

That is the rough thing when it comes to reptiles. You would think as many breeders and as long as many of them live that there would be more. My vet straight up told me, when I took one of my Leopard Geckos (Kate) to the vet, he has no training and doesn't see geckos often. Which is why I don't take my geckos to the vet until I've tried everything I can think of to do and what I'm doing isn't working. Which is also why Charlie never made it to a vet.

If you think about it, human doctors go school for 9 years. 4 of regular college in a bachelors degree and 5 in medical school. In that time they spend 2 or 3 years learning basics and then they have to choose a focus. From that point they then have to intern in that field for 2-3 years and then pass the board to become a doctor.
Then you have veterinarians. They go to school for 9 years. 4 to get a bachelors and then 5 in veterinarian school. Same as humans they learn the basics but then there isn't a "basic" animal. They have to learn dogs and cats. Then they have to decide if they are going to focus on small animals, large animals, or exotics. Either way they are having to study multiple different animals. Which is why you see mostly dog and cat vets and fewer large breed and exotic focused practices. It's much easier to study 2 than multiples. I have a cousin that is a Veterinarian. His focus is large animals such as horses and cows but he has a small animal practice as well. He's not the friendliest or easiest to talk to (God complex, know-it-all), but if I can, I'll ask him more detailed questions about what he had to go through for school.

[Catherine]

Barrie had a good night. This morning he had the towel wrapped around himself and he looked very comfortable.
His hemipenes is really drying up and "dying". His body has cut off the blood supply. I am putting antibiotic around the base to prevent infection. 
I went through the same thing with Earl and he survived. It is just that Barrie is much bigger. He is being pretty cooperative when I need to treat him. I am holding him with one hand and putting the anti biotic on with the other. Normally I need two hands to hold him. I think he understands that I am helping. I am also giving him backrubs which he really loves. He arches his back into my hand and gets a blissful look on his face. 

He could still infect, but it really looks hopeful that he will recover. It may be weeks before I am sure, but having him eat was a tremendous relief.

Even if a vet had taken some training in reptiles, there are so many different kinds, no vet could know what to do with each species. If I had let a vet operate on Barrie(I never considered taking him to a vet) how would they know how much anesthetic to use. There would be no statistics for Tegus in general let alone for Black and White Columbian Tegus. Don't mix him with the Black and White Argentinian Tegu, they are much longer and easily 4-5 times the weight. The only vet who might have some idea would be a zoo vet at a major zoo. That person would have done some serious specializing in their training and would have worked with many different animals.

I am not sure anyone not used to handling Barrie could have done the cleanup I did. I had to flush out a lot of dirt that had gotten trapped inside his hemipenes. You know your pet trusts you when they let you do that.

Quote:I got a terrible ache in my hip, found a doctor and went for a consultation. "Well young lady," said the doctor, "I think you need more exercise!"
In a daze I asked him, "...Do you mean I should walk more than thirty miles at a weekend instead of twenty six?"
He just stared at me for a moment. "Maybe you should have a rest instead." He said.

This sounds like my usual experiences with doctors. 
He didn't ask you any questions, he just went ahead and gave advice. What if you hadn't questioned him. More exercise would have made it worse.
I never trust medications offered unless I read about them first and decide if I think they are safe and could possibly help. I doubt if I fill 25% of the prescriptions that were written for me. I will need to renew my Tetanus Shot within the next 18 months. That should be fun. If I get bitten by something I will be okay, but to convince a doctor that I want the shot for protection because I know something will bite me or I will get a cut in the garden, that could take some convincing.

Visits to the emergency ward are even more annoying. I had something in my eye and I wanted it checked by a doctor. There were tears running down my face and my nose was running so they put on the admission paper that I had a cold. NO! Anything in the eye like that will cause a reaction in the nose. The doctor never bothered to read the paper so I told him about my eye. 
Otherwise he might have given me cold medicine.