Vegetarianism

[Reduckto]

Any Veggies out there?

I've been veggie now for over five years but my attitude to meat eaters often leaves fellow veggies very confused.

My view is that I am veggie because I am fortunate enough to be able to make the choice to not eat meat. I enjoy meat ( wel, I think I do... It has been five years) But the though of eating meat makes me feel sick.

That being said though, I am not an activist for vegetarianism. I often hear my veggie friends saying things like 'oooh I smelt that person cooking bacon and I was so tempted'. I always think 'well why don't you just have it!' My view is that if you want to eat meat you should eat it and not feel bad! I simply don't eat meat beacause I don't like the thought of eating animals but that dosent stop me cooking meat for other people and when I have kids (that seems a long way off being the grand old age of 19) I will definatly bring them up meat eaters. Then it will be up to them to choose their eating path

What do you think?

[Tobi]

I am more or less vegan.
Gosh! That sounds like I'm such a hypocrite. But I sometimes do eat eggs from the lady's chickens down the lane. They are so very well cared for and obviously happy. The eggs are unfertilised. The chickens were rescued, and have flourished since they came to her.

I can't eat meat any more because the whole farming thing bothers me, as far as animal well-being is concerned. The farmers where I live are not cruel, and do care for their 'stock', and it isn't factory-farming....but still, it feels wrong to me to be a part of the animals' slavery, and their slaughter (which is terrifying and distressing for them)

Even the dairy industry causes pain. Bull calves are 'culled'. Their mothers grieve. I never bothered a lot with dairy -never used milk. But used to eat cheese sometimes and butter. But there are very good vegan cheeses! I now use soya spread but add a little salt as it is too bland for me.

But I do know that some peoples' needs are different from others. Yet to me, kindness to all animals is the most important thing.

[Catherine]

I like that we are all taking a balanced approach to what we eat. I have lived vegetarian, but find I need some animal protein. I do not have to support factory farming to get it. I can make responsible, caring choices.
I eat eggs, but I can choose the eggs that come from good sources. I wish I could get fresh farm eggs. I do eat dairy products. I seem to really need a lot of milk, but we have well run farms and good animal welfare laws here. I don't eat veal. The idea in horrible.

I think each in our own way, we are part of a shift away from the excessive meat eating of earlier times. I choose to eat more vegetables and grains. My meals are not complete without them. I do not eat palm oil since it's production is part of destroying the Orangutan habitats.
It is all about making kinder choices. I think by being gentle with meat eating friends you can influence them for good.

Quote:But I do know that some peoples' needs are different from others. Yet to me, kindness to all animals is the most important thing.

This is a really important point. I think we are finding out now that we cannot all digest the same foods. Many adults cannot eat dairy products. It is a mutation that allows for adults to do this. I clearly have it. Many people cannot digest wheat products. We have to choose to eat what we can eat, but as you say we can be kind no matter what.
The ideal would be yeast products that match the foods that we need to eat. Then no animal would need to be harmed to feed us all. I wonder if we will ever do this.

[cathie]

Yes, I've been a vegetarian almost vegan for about 25 years.

[Catherine]

Quote:Yes, I've been a vegetarian almost vegan for about 25 years.

That is impressive. We have other vegan members on the Forum. Many are vegetarians. In the last year I have really shifted towards a vegetarian diet. It is a shift that first involved learning to eat more vegetables. Now I am finding protein sources that are non meat.

Once you start understanding how meat is raised, it is hard to be unaffected. So yes it is an ethical choice. I seem to be healthy and I think I am getting proper nourishment. I am currently experimenting with cooking and trying new foods.

I don't know if I will end up vegan. I do make some vegan meals. I am just making changes as I can. I watch all the videos that are posted on the forum so I had to rethink how I eat.

[JasonW]

I've often wondered why vegans don't even eat eggs from chickens that are naturally reared. Can anyone enlighten me? As far as I was aware, eggs are just something chickens produce naturally and would go to waste if not eaten?

[LPC]

I am much the same as Cathy and Tobi. Tamara and I eat a basically vegan diet, but we do have some unfertilised eggs which our neighbour gives us fairly regularly. The chickens are certainly free range; they often wander on to our property and back again! Chickens which are not with a cockerel can and do lay eggs regularly and our neighbours often have too many for their own needs.

Reduckto, how to bring up any children you might have in the future is entirely, of course, your choice. You say that you will bring them up as meat eaters, even though the idea of eating meat makes you sick. That is your choice; but the suffering of the animals will be the same, whether it is you personally or your children who eat the meat. You should do as your conscience tells you. Listen to your "inner voice"; that will guide you.

If, by chance, the reason why you are determined that your children should become meat eaters is based on nutritional grounds, then these days there are plenty of options available. Vitamin B12 can be be processed without animals; there is no need for meat. Similarly for co-enzyme Q10 and vitamin D3. Indeed, there is an excellent multivitamin and mineral tablet, all in one (one a day), from vegvit.com

The tablets I mention above are from natural ingredients, not artificial. For milk, the Alpro range offers a delicious range of nut/vegetable milks - coconut, hazelnut, rice, etc. - all with added D3 and B12.

Of course, it is premature of me to discuss all these, as you haven't got any children yet, LOL! I just wanted you to know that alternatives are available.

Every best wish to you! How is life on the houseboat? Any more pictures of your idyllic existence there?

[Tobi]

Many people in my local area have rescued ex-battery and barn hens, which have come from our local animal rescue "Happy Landings".
I have seen them....when they first arrive, and after a little while. They do start to lay again once they are restored to health and contentment, and will often lay and then leave their eggs and forget about them. So eggs are found usually all over the place. I think the hens are just happy to be free in the grass, and don't bother even using the nest boxes. They are extremely happy hens.

What concerned me at one time was I heard that the mother hen can form an attachment to the egg, and even when it hasn't been fertilised, will sit on it waiting for it to hatch.
In my own local reality though, I haven't seen them do that. They seem to lay and then walk away! I feel personally that it is doing them no harm to have a few of the abandoned eggs.

But another thought I have is the size of the egg! Sadly, barn hens seem to produce HUGE eggs. Incredible sizes. That I am sure, is something to do with human interference, and obviously connected with 'productivity'.

Yet when those hens are freed, and after a while they start to lay again, they produce smaller eggs.
Now it's not rocket-science to be aware that a huge egg is going to take more laying than a small one. And will probably hurt?
I always choose small eggs.

[Ruth]

I don't drink milk but use soymilk. I was a vegetarian for 10 years but am not any more. I don't blame people who eat meat for the treatment the animals endure but I blame the butchers and killers of animals now. This makes more sense to me. I still eat cheese.

[Catherine]

Jason, I think the issue of not using animal products has to do with how the animals are treated. Just because we don't kill them doesn't mean that we treat them well.

Eggs right now are usually produced in intense factory farms where the hens have horrible lives.
There are issues with milk production. The cow has to give birth to a calf before she can produce milk. The fate of that calf is enough to put you off milk drinking forever. The cows are not treated well either.

If we went back to kinder ways of producing milk and eggs, eating them would not be such an ethical issue.

Quote: But another thought I have is the size of the egg! Sadly, barn hens seem to produce HUGE eggs. Incredible sizes. That I am sure, is something to do with human interference, and obviously connected with 'productivity'.

I think factory eggs are larger because of the intense way they are produced. They are worth more money that way. It is harder on the chickens and not better for us. We would be better to eat the smaller healthier eggs.

LPC you are right, there are many good vitamin/nutritional supplements. I have to take Vit D3 supplements. Canadians as a country are probably Vit D deficient most of the time. Our day length is short and it is often too cold to get sun when it is shinning. I don't get much ocean fish because I live way inland. I take a Vit D3 pill every day and that is enough.

I think we are all doing what we can to eat ethically. It matters where you live. Some places have different food options. In the extreme north, meat is the only food available. I live in a big city. Some of you live on farms or in the country. We all have different food options. What I see as important is the fact that we are all thinking about what we eat and where it comes from. We are making conscious choices.

I was not a vegetarian when this thread was started a year and a half ago.
I think I can say that I am mostly vegetarian right now. That is certainly the direction I am going. I am not happy with the way animals are raised for food. At least I am making conscious choices based on what I know about our food system. I haven't said to much about the issue because I wasn't sure if I could make the change. So far so good.